Cumbria Rail accident

Skinnylinny · Post by **Skinnylinny** » 23 Feb 2007 21:56

Don't know if anyone knows about this yet...
A Virgin train (a class 390 Pendolino) has become derailed between Oxenhome and Tebay in Cumbria, with at least 6 people believed still to be trapped. The train involved was the 1715 from Euston to Glasgow Central, running on the West Coast Main Line. Apparently the derailment was preceded by some fairly strong shaking of the carriages - sounds like a tilt-system failure to me...
If any more information comes to light, I'm sure others will post. Just thought you all ought to know.

[edit: got the wrong train type - thanks Ameecher.]

Ameecher · Post by **Ameecher** » 23 Feb 2007 22:01

I've just looked at the BBC News article about it: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/6391633.stm

I think the train you mean is actually a class 390 but that is irrelevant, just as the railway is pulling itself out of the Ladbroke grove, Selby and Hatfield incidents we get this with our newest and most advanced trains. No doubt the media will pull the whole lot apart and paint it in bad light. Let's hope everyone is ok.

TheGrew · Post by **TheGrew** » 23 Feb 2007 22:26

yeah the pendolino might have a tilting failier but I would also expect high speed winds in Cumbria

Ameecher · Post by **Ameecher** » 23 Feb 2007 22:27

alistairgrew wrote:yeah the pendolino might have a tilting failier but I would also expect high speed winds in Cumbria

or even more likely a broken rail or other track damage.

TheGrew · Post by **TheGrew** » 23 Feb 2007 22:27

I would hope not, millions have been spent on that line upgrading it for 390 tilting.

Skinnylinny · Post by **Skinnylinny** » 23 Feb 2007 22:42

Of course, Tebay was the location of that accident in 2004, where the trolley carrying lengths of rail knocked down track workers. I believe that most of the train's coaches (it was a 9-coach unit according to the Beeb) are on their sides. Indeed, one of the photos the BBC are showing shows the inside of a carriage which was tilted at 100 degrees from its normal (ie vertical) orientation. The reports also mention carriages "stuck up in the air".

Martin · Post by **Martin** » 23 Feb 2007 23:06

I hope this turns out OK, it seems very hard to tell at this stage. A couple of minutes before I was going to type this post I saw a helicopter about to land here at Lancaster so that seems quite likely to be to do with it.

Griff · Post by **Griff** » 24 Feb 2007 08:36

Watching it on the news..ouch.

The Irish · Post by **The Irish** » 24 Feb 2007 09:02

any news on the possible cause yet?

Griff · Post by **Griff** » 24 Feb 2007 09:11

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6392197.stm

Are saying the points may be the problem, but we shall have to see when the investigation can start properly.

Ameecher · Post by **Ameecher** » 24 Feb 2007 11:00

I think credit goes to Alstom, the Pendolino despite having derailed at 90 odd mph and plunging down an embankment is still most definitely recognisable and is still largely intact, the carraiges certainly. Had this been a class 87 with a rake of Mk3s goodness knows what would have happened.

Edit: some pictures from Sky News:

andel · Post by **andel** » 24 Feb 2007 12:17

Thoughts from AMI go with both the Passengers and the Crew. Ian Black, the driver, did very well to slow it a bit...

Illegal_Alien · Post by **Illegal_Alien** » 24 Feb 2007 12:27

The train is rather intact, i have heard that an elder woman has died by a hart attack?

Post by **orudge** » 24 Feb 2007 18:51

It's remarkable, and very good to know, that the train remained so intact, and that so few people were hurt. Just goes to show how much train travel, and safety, has improved in this country - despite what a few uninformed idiots will think, the railways are still pretty much the safest way to get around.

Ameecher · Post by **Ameecher** » 24 Feb 2007 20:26

BBC News wrote:Points 'faulty'

Rail expert Christian Wolmar told BBC News 24 that he understood the points involved were in a similar condition to those in the Potters Bar crash - with nuts missing and the stretcher bar between the rails loosened.

Seven people died and 76 were injured when poorly maintained points derailed the train in Hertfordshire in May 2002.

Mr Wolmar said it was up Network Rail to ensure that the points were properly maintained and that "things like loose bolts, loose bolts and nuts, were tightened up regularly".

He added: "But there is also the possibility that these nuts and bolts were maintained in the wrong way, or not sufficiently maintained, and that's why they were in that condition."

Oh blooming fantastic. The media will begin to bit by bit destroy the industry again.
Also NR has begun a check of between 600 and 700 sets of points on old lines where trains travel at speeds in excess of 85mph.

Griff · Post by **Griff** » 24 Feb 2007 20:29

Ameecher wrote:
BBC News wrote:Points 'faulty'

Rail expert Christian Wolmar told BBC News 24 that he understood the points involved were in a similar condition to those in the Potters Bar crash - with nuts missing and the stretcher bar between the rails loosened.

Seven people died and 76 were injured when poorly maintained points derailed the train in Hertfordshire in May 2002.

Mr Wolmar said it was up Network Rail to ensure that the points were properly maintained and that "things like loose bolts, loose bolts and nuts, were tightened up regularly".

He added: "But there is also the possibility that these nuts and bolts were maintained in the wrong way, or not sufficiently maintained, and that's why they were in that condition."
Oh blooming fantastic. The media will begin to bit by bit destroy the industry again.
Also NR has begun a check of between 600 and 700 sets of points on old lines where trains travel at speeds in excess of 85mph.

I was under the impression by what they were saying on the news, that a track gang had carried about some work on that section of line previously that week. If so, how could they have missed that?

Ameecher · Post by **Ameecher** » 24 Feb 2007 20:31

jpmaster wrote:I was under the impression by what they were saying on the news, that a track gang had carried about some work on that section of line previously that week. If so, how could they have missed that?

The same happened at Potters bar with a track gang doing an inspection in the week prior to the accident. This time the previous check had been 3 weeks and either they didn't do their job properly or the bolts came loose through use. This is all speculation but I suspect heads will roll in high places.

Griff · Post by **Griff** » 24 Feb 2007 20:41

Ameecher wrote:
jpmaster wrote:I was under the impression by what they were saying on the news, that a track gang had carried about some work on that section of line previously that week. If so, how could they have missed that?
The same happened at Potters bar with a track gang doing an inspection in the week prior to the accident. This time the previous check had been 3 weeks and either they didn't do their job properly or the bolts came loose through use. This is all speculation but I suspect heads will roll in high places.

Indeed, but thats what you get when Network Rail subcontracts track maintenance to other companies where the workers are either incompetent and too lazy to do it properly or 'foreigners' who do not know what they are doing.

You should go to university and get a degree in railway maintenance before you are let loose on the railways, at least then we could be sure they people working the line are qualified.

csuke · Post by **csuke** » 24 Feb 2007 20:50

retracted for the good of the forum because people dont like me expressing opinions and what i believe to be true

Hyronymus · Post by **Hyronymus** » 24 Feb 2007 20:57

Just out of curiousity but who confirmed the Potter Bar information you have to be true? I always try to be critical so please don't take it personal

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